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Mar. 17th, 2023 09:07 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jennlkWe (at work) got a visit from some "First Amendment Defenders" I feel so safe now. Not.
Dude bro, with backup, wandering around *all* the public areas of the township hall -- parking lot (including our cars), exterior of the fire bay, boardroom, lobby -- with one of those big stabilised camera rigs.Tried to go into the back where the kitchen and restrooms are, but unless you need the restroom, that area isn't public. Tried to go downstairs, but the only entrance is locked (it's secure storage for old election stuff, among other things). Office manager, clerk, township supervisor, all asked "can I help you?" No response, just turned the camera on them. I went out the back and into the parking lot next door to get pictures of his car (you're taking pictures of my car on public property? I can do the same.)
He confronted me in that parking lot "what are you doing?"
Me:"taking pictures of your car."
H: "why?"
Me: "because you're trying to intimidate us, and that makes me uncomfortable. I also don't like the way you didn't answer simple questions"
H:"I don't have to. It's in the Fifth Amendment"
Me:"I don't think that applies here."
H: "it does"
Me:"If you say so"
H:"I'm gonna find out who you are...", attempting to loom over me.
Me:"go ahead", as I walked away.
This entire time, he's got that damned camera in front of his face, because he's such a big he-man that he needs to hide behind it. (pro tip, dude - I've had bigger/smarter/scarier people try to intimidate me. And they weren't hiding behind cameras.)
A few minutes later, I look up and he's got his camera aimed through the office window. The blinds are mostly closed anyway, so I don't know what he hoped to see, but really? I flipped him off as I closed the blinds all the way. (none of _our_ computer screens are visible from the windows, but the treasurer's can be. There's sometimes private information on those screens, and that's illegal.)
By this point, DC and treasurer were completely freaking out, the office manager was trying to figure out why he was doing it (she's an older lady). I said "because he can. Also to intimidate and unsettle us, and disrupt the working day. All of which he succeeded at." The supervisor was calling her contacts at the county sheriff's office; DC was calling 911. State trooper showed up half an hour after they left, took all the info we had (a surprising amount, as it turns out - I had photos of the car & license plate, DC had pointed her phone camera at him when he pointed his camera at someone else) and filed a report. The sheriff's office called back a bit later (her contact was teaching a class), and said that this bunch is known to them, and that they were actually at the Dexter Township hall doing the same thing as he was talking to her. Apparently, their idea of "defending" their First Amendment rights is to tromple over the rights of people to not feel intimidated at work, just because they work for "the government". The trooper said that they come into the post every couple of months and do the same. They are trying to provoke a reaction that they can sue over....
I feel so safe with these yayhoos defending my rights. Oh. I forgot - they're defending *their* rights, not mine. (I have fewer rights than they do, because some are more equal than others.)
(I looked at the Cornell Law interpretation, and the Fifth Amendment says that you don't need to answer questions from law enforcement if you think that you might incriminate yourself. So, yeah. I don't think it actually applies to simple questions from the office manager at the township hall. Also, there's the implication that by pleading the Fifth you are doing something that you're pretty sure you oughtn't be.)
Dude bro, with backup, wandering around *all* the public areas of the township hall -- parking lot (including our cars), exterior of the fire bay, boardroom, lobby -- with one of those big stabilised camera rigs.Tried to go into the back where the kitchen and restrooms are, but unless you need the restroom, that area isn't public. Tried to go downstairs, but the only entrance is locked (it's secure storage for old election stuff, among other things). Office manager, clerk, township supervisor, all asked "can I help you?" No response, just turned the camera on them. I went out the back and into the parking lot next door to get pictures of his car (you're taking pictures of my car on public property? I can do the same.)
He confronted me in that parking lot "what are you doing?"
Me:"taking pictures of your car."
H: "why?"
Me: "because you're trying to intimidate us, and that makes me uncomfortable. I also don't like the way you didn't answer simple questions"
H:"I don't have to. It's in the Fifth Amendment"
Me:"I don't think that applies here."
H: "it does"
Me:"If you say so"
H:"I'm gonna find out who you are...", attempting to loom over me.
Me:"go ahead", as I walked away.
This entire time, he's got that damned camera in front of his face, because he's such a big he-man that he needs to hide behind it. (pro tip, dude - I've had bigger/smarter/scarier people try to intimidate me. And they weren't hiding behind cameras.)
A few minutes later, I look up and he's got his camera aimed through the office window. The blinds are mostly closed anyway, so I don't know what he hoped to see, but really? I flipped him off as I closed the blinds all the way. (none of _our_ computer screens are visible from the windows, but the treasurer's can be. There's sometimes private information on those screens, and that's illegal.)
By this point, DC and treasurer were completely freaking out, the office manager was trying to figure out why he was doing it (she's an older lady). I said "because he can. Also to intimidate and unsettle us, and disrupt the working day. All of which he succeeded at." The supervisor was calling her contacts at the county sheriff's office; DC was calling 911. State trooper showed up half an hour after they left, took all the info we had (a surprising amount, as it turns out - I had photos of the car & license plate, DC had pointed her phone camera at him when he pointed his camera at someone else) and filed a report. The sheriff's office called back a bit later (her contact was teaching a class), and said that this bunch is known to them, and that they were actually at the Dexter Township hall doing the same thing as he was talking to her. Apparently, their idea of "defending" their First Amendment rights is to tromple over the rights of people to not feel intimidated at work, just because they work for "the government". The trooper said that they come into the post every couple of months and do the same. They are trying to provoke a reaction that they can sue over....
I feel so safe with these yayhoos defending my rights. Oh. I forgot - they're defending *their* rights, not mine. (I have fewer rights than they do, because some are more equal than others.)
(I looked at the Cornell Law interpretation, and the Fifth Amendment says that you don't need to answer questions from law enforcement if you think that you might incriminate yourself. So, yeah. I don't think it actually applies to simple questions from the office manager at the township hall. Also, there's the implication that by pleading the Fifth you are doing something that you're pretty sure you oughtn't be.)
no subject
Date: 2023-03-17 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-18 11:25 pm (UTC)K.